Goldman Refuses To Answer Who Ordered Subpoenaed Phone Numbers Be Connected To Members Of Congress

REP. DOUG COLLINS: You’re not going to hear anything from me about a subpoena and the legality of a subpoena. My problem is this: Who on the Committee asked that those numbers that you actually did put into for a subpoena and get those numbers back, who was it that asked that they be cross-checked for members of the media and Members of Congress? Who ordered that?

DANIEL GOLDMAN: I don’t think that’s how we did it, sir.

REP. COLLINS: Woah, woah, woah. You came out with a report that actually showed these people, such as Chairman Nunes and others, were actually on these calls.


REP. COLLINS: Now someone–and you and I, we’re not going to play cute here–somebody took the four records that you asked for, at least four, took those numbers and then said, “Hey, let’s play match game.” Who ordered the match game for members of Congress and the press? Was it you?

GOLDMAN: I don’t think anyone did, sir.

REP. COLLINS: Then how did you get–okay, come on, that’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. You don’t just all of the sudden pick up numbers in which you have to match those numbers to actually show where they are and you don’t come up with them. Who ordered them to actually match from Members of Congress and the press?

GOLDMAN: Actually, what you described is exactly how it happened.

REP. COLLINS: Who ordered to find out if Nunes’ number was on those calls?

GOLDMAN: If I could just explain, sir. You pick an event of significance in the investigation and you look for sequencing and patterns surrounding that event, you look then at the numbers and you try to identify what those numbers are and then you start to build the circumstantial case.

REP. COLLINS: At this point, that’s a wonderful explanation, but not an answer to my question. You looking for the four numbers you asked for to see how they’re connected–I understand how the subpoena that you issued. My question directly, was it you or was it Chairman Schiff that said while we’re doing this, let’s see if this matches Chairman Nunes’ number, let’s see if this matches the member of the press’s number. Somebody along the way didn’t all the sudden have an epiphany, unless you’re getting ready to throw a low-level staffer under the bus, that these numbers might match. So who did it? Was it Chairman Schiff or was it you? Be careful, you’re under oath.

GOLDMAN: I know I’m under oath, sir. 

REP. COLLINS: Then answer the question.

GOLDMAN: I will answer the question if you give me a second here. It’s not a simple answer.

REP. COLLINS: The same second that was not afforded to my witness, by the way. Who decided to leak it by the way. If you’re not going to tell me the other–while you’re thinking about how you’re going to answer that question, who decided to leak it, the information? Why did you include it in the report after not saying anything else about this, not publicly known. So two questions are hanging out that everybody’s looking for an answer for, including me. Who ordered it, was it you or was it Chairman Schiff? And why was it decided, except nothing but smear purposes, to be included in the Schiff Report?

GOLDMAN: Well, I’m not going to get into the deliberations of our investigation with you, but I will tell you the reason it was included in the report is because it–the calls were surrounding important evidence to our investigation and I think, frankly, that your question is better directed not at me, but at the people who were having conversations who were involved in–

REP. COLLINS: No, no, no. We’re not going to play that game. We’re not going to play that game. You’re as good as Mr. Berg, you’re not going to play that game. You’re not answering the question and every member of the media, everybody here, when you start going into the decorum of the House, when you start looking at members’ telephone numbers, you start looking at reporters’ telephone numbers, which they ought to be scared about–you took a subpoena for four and then you decided to play match game, you found numbers that you thought were like–some of them actually didn’t exist because you claimed they were for the White House Budget Office and they were not, so we’re throwing stories out there because nobody was out there actually. So I go back to my question, are you going to go here on record in front of everybody here today and say that you will not tell who ordered this, Mr. Goldman. You or Mr. Schiff?

GOLDMAN: I’m going to go on record and tell you that I’m not going to reveal how we conducted this investigation.

REP. COLLINS: And that’s the problem we have with this entire thing, Mr. Schiff said behind closed doors–I’m done with you right now.